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2019年3月16日土曜日
Costco
okay I'm not sure a man who's been
entertaining a group of stories and
keeping these wraps faces out of their
laptops needs an introduction I also
don't think that Mike's working so I'm
going to just talk how about this Oh
photo op here we go again we can
improvise this is awesome
it is so I'm Karen May for those of you
I don't know oh wow
what an introduction I manage our talent
team which is leadership development
Learning and Development talent
management and so forth and so what an
honor for me to introduce this man I'm
so close to to introduce to you Sully
Sullenberger who you may you may know as
a hero and you may think of when you
think of the word hero but you may also
think of as a leader as a man who's an
expert who's responsible is creative and
who's able to lead a team through a
significant crisis to a very good end
right yes he's standing here a very good
end but I wanted to highlight three
other characteristics leadership
characteristics that really matter the
first is that he's a curious man even
after extraordinary success he stays
curious and the second is that he's
focused on learning from others
even people who are quite different from
him and then the third is that he seeks
to share that knowledge to share what he
learns he actually took this book that
he wrote making a difference the one
he's here to talk to us about as an
opportunity to interview people eleven
people that he admires leaders that he
admires and to learn from them and then
in turn to share what he learned with
the world and he's here today to share
that with you and what an honor for us
so thank you thank you very much
that was a very nice introduction thank
you I'll try to live up to it but yeah I
I have been intellectually curious my
whole life and in the introduction to
the second book making addicts stories
and vision and courage from America's
leaders I talked about why that's the
case or why I think that's the case and
one of the reasons is that even before
my birth my family valued education all
for my grandparents and these are people
who were born in the 1880s and 1890s in
the 19th century went to college and
that was especially remarkable for women
of that era my mother was a first grade
teacher in the small town in Texas where
I grew up just a first-grade teacher for
25 years and so from her you know I got
a wonderful lifelong gifts of a love of
reading and of learning and those of
certainly well throughout my career and
so I've tried to do what I've encouraged
others to do and that's to continue to
invest in yourself so never stop
learning never stop growing either
professionally and personally throughout
your life and I think that's become a
necessity now my cousin with the pace of
change only accelerating I think most
people cannot get through an entire
working lifetime with just one skill set
we have to keep learning have to keep
growing
sometimes reinvent ourselves like I did
on January 15 2009 till to learn very
quickly a way of living this entirely
new life on January 15 2009 I had never
given that public speech in my life
never wanted to I was convinced I
wouldn't be good at it I had never
written the book I've been a
professional pilot but it's a curious
and so I approached these these new
careers and I have four of them now to
replace the the airline career I left as
after 30 years two years ago as a
speaker as an author as a consultant to
industry and as a CBS News aviation
consultant I approach that with the same
discipline the dillons I did my flying
career and we seem to have lost the
speaker in the room or has it just been
this had just been muted is it better
without it
okay I've got just enough that you can
hear me let me know if you if you can't
yeah okay so so why this book and why
now I think like like the first book
like highest duty my memoir a lot of
this book was already in me that I had
lived my life in a way that had prepared
me without knowing it for that event and
for all this attention there's a public
figure in the aftermath I'd been
thoughtful you know I grew up in an
environment in which ideas were
important in which education was
important and strivings rec from for
excellence was expected of me and so
yeah I when I when I had these amazing
opportunities to travel the world and
meet world figures the last three years
and I began to hear these very personal
stories he's moving and inspiring
stories sometimes funny but all all of
them you know really really incredible
about people who have changed the world
who have changed the lives of others and
done amazing things I just had to share
them I had to put them on the page and
so that's that's why and I intentionally
chose a very diverse group of people
from a variety of walks of life younger
and older men women some well-known some
you've never heard of but all people I
admire and respect all people who have
certain things in common one of the
things they have in common is that I
think they all view the world the same
way they view the world as an
opportunity for good and there are
people who are willing to serve a cause
greater than themselves greater than
their own immediate needs they're people
who like one of them literally says
they're able to check their ego at the
door they're able to do things for the
right reasons and they're able to elite
people you know I think people deserve
to be let they want to be led we may
manage things we may manage money but we
must lead people and that requires human
skills now some especially in really
evidence-based domains and I've done a
lot of patient safety work to trying to
apply what we've learned over the last
century and aviation to medicine
some in these evidence-based domains
like Edison met at medicine think of
these human skills as soft skills as
opposed to hard skills or clinical or
technical skills but they're not really
soft skills are human skills and and
even in medicine even in the
evidence-based domain like that these
human skills have the potential to save
more lives and technical skills too
because much of what we're seeing in
medicine right now is we have like in so
many industries we have islands of
accents islands of excellence in a sea
of systemic failures we have some areas
that are doing very well some they're
very safe and some that are not and so I
think these human skills are very
important and now when we at the society
are facing huge and intractable and
ambiguous and complicated problems that
are going to require generations to
solve we need people now more than ever
who can feel a sense of civic duty who
can be willing to share sacrifices who
can give us a vision of a possible
future and help us to get there and be
as Jennifer Granholm says a former
michigan governor got profile in the
book who can be more pragmatic and less
dogmatic so you know with that in mind i
can i'll tell you a few stories about
some of the people in my profile and why
it shows them and i'd like to open it up
into a wide-ranging discussion about
what these people mean what they've done
and what we can learn from them and and
take away as everyday things we can use
in our lives and and one of the things i
wanted to do in this book is to make it
accessible you know there are our
shelves full of leadership books but
many of them are written by or for CEOs
or salespeople but this book is for
everybody whether you have a big job or
a fancy title or not
that you know everybody can learn to be
a leader and everybody can learn to be a
better leader than they are currently
the very first profile I do is of
Admiral thad Allen you may know the name
he's a recently retired Coast Guard
commandant just about a contemporary of
mine and they get your two older it's
been his whole life you know serving
others saving lives and he was the one
brought in in the darkest hours of the
federal response to Hurricane Katrina to
turn it around it was in chaos it was
uncoordinated the the the rescue workers
were being beaten up in the press on a
daily basis they were completely
demoralized and so when he finally got
to New Orleans he turned to his military
aide who happened to be interestingly
enough named Katrina and and she said
well Admiral now that we're here what
are you going to do and he said I'm
going to do the first thing that any new
commander does I'm gonna call an
all-hands meeting and she said Admiral
there are 4,000 people in this building
he said well I want you to gather as
many of them in one place as you can and
I want to talk to them right now and so
on the first floor this large building
they get their 2,500 people and as he
entered the area he saw faces almost
hanging on the floor and so he stood up
on a desk he grabbed a microphone and
then with a very simple message in just
a few words he said I want you to listen
to me I'm going to give you a direct
order I want you to treat everyone you
encounter as if they're a member of your
immediate family as if they were your
father your mother your brother your
sister and if you do that two things are
going to happen first if you make a
mistake you're going to err on the side
of doing too much not too little and
second if anyone has a problem with what
you've done then their problems with me
and not with you and you said you could
hear
huge collective sigh of relief people
actually began to weep because nobody
before that had told them that what they
were doing him was important or why or
that their boss was behind them and then
just a few words he had done that we're
a very graphic exercise of leadership by
his personal example and he did the same
thing again with the BP oil spill in the
Gulf and with the response to the
earthquake in Haiti in 2010 and that's
just one story on one profile in the
first chapter in the book and there's
some mini there like that Robert rice
was here I know it and spoke to you last
August I had an extended conversation
with him I've admired him for many years
and my conversation with him at his
office over at Berkley was by far the
most intellectually stimulating of them
all it was almost a Socratic dialogue
and we talked about many themes he
talked about where he got his
inspiration he's a little bit older than
I and in the early 1960s during the
civil rights movement one of his close
friends a mentor a man a little bit
older than he is Mickey Schwerner who
you may remember was murdered along with
two other civil rights workers in
Mississippi that letter to the the story
in the end the movie Mississippi Burning
and when when Roberts when Bob learned
about this man's death it shocked him to
the core that such evil could exist in
our country in this time and he he made
a promise to himself that he would do
what he had the inclination to do and
what he said was an assumption that he
would do he would assume that he would
spend his life in what he calls public
service now that sounds like an archaic
term doesn't it there's not one we come
on they'll hear these days but that's
it's literally what he means that he
intended to spend his life serving the
public it wasn't that he was going to go
into politics to become a politician or
to work in government his goal was to
public servant which is what he did he
relates to me another example of his
personal leadership when he first got to
the Labor Department as the new labor
secretary under President Clinton he had
a meeting with his staff and he opened
it up to questions a large group of
employees at Labor Department and
someone asked mr. secretary why do we
still have time cards why do we have to
mess with that what's the purpose of
that and so he canvassed his ik
lieutenants and they decided that there
really wasn't a purpose to the time
cards and so he said okay starting next
week no more time cards and people were
stunned but then more suggestions came
and people became more engaged and had
other ways to make things better and
more productive and more useful and one
of the best ideas that came out of this
kind of meeting was - as changes to the
economy took place to try to very
quickly identify which jobs were likely
to go away and never come back and which
jobs in which someone could be quickly
retrained to do something else similar
and then redeploy the forces and the
resources to do the most good
the BA cents are you doing triage one
name that you haven't heard is sue
Sheridan and through my patient safety
work I became familiar with her story
through a physician friend of mine sue
Sheridan is a mother of two from Boise
Idaho and the reason that profiled her
is because sure her family endured two
awful and preventable medical tragedies
first her son Cal when he was born as
many babies do became jaundiced
he wasn't diagnosed he wasn't tested he
wasn't treated in time and he he
suffered brain damage
he has cerebral palsy and he requires
special care the rest of his life and
not long after that her or her husband
Pat had a tumor that they were initially
told was benign he had surgery to remove
of it as much of it is that this could
be done and then when the tumor recurred
the surgeons at that time wondered why
he wasn't treated for cancer earlier at
the time of his first surgery and they
kept saying well because we were told it
was benign and after about the third or
fourth doctor or per solitaire
pathologists asked her the same question
why wasn't he treated earlier for cancer
she went down to the records room and
checked out his records herself and saw
in the original pathology report
malignant sarcoma and so again a
systemic breakdown in communication led
to a fatality and as he was dying he
made her promise to go kick some ass to
save others from that fate and to change
the world
and so rather than devolve into
bitterness anger and despair as many
would feel every right to do she
educated herself she gained allies she
took on the often imperious medical
establishment as a mom and she
single-handedly managed to change the
care that we give newborns globally and
she now has a new job that I helped her
get as a patient safety advocate as part
of the World Health Organization
it's amazing what people can do and they
choose to so so that's that's why I
wrote the book and and for me that
that's what it's about is that each of
us can choose to do these things each of
us can learn to be more fulfilled at
work to be better leaders at home at
school or at work so I'd love to take
your questions we have some mics that
will pass through the room and if if we
all can't hear you clearly then I'll
love repeat the question right over here
yes sir I've never seen you before
good to see you again good to see you
again thanks for coming you in terms of
making it a difference you've been
single day went from being an airline
pilot getting ready to retire to
becoming an advocate for aviation safety
I'm wondering if you've been making the
use of this the bully pulpit to say
these are things that we are seeing
wrong with the way airlines are
regulated with the way pilots and flight
crews are being compensated recognized
are you starting to see any any progress
and he was
from policy makers and from gear - to
network some the answer in order is yes
from some of the policy makers and
pretty much no from the industry we have
in this country a formal lessons learned
process through the National
Transportation Safety Board an
independent federal agency that
investigates major transportation
accidents not just Airlines but rail
pipeline highway and others as a result
of the final report on flight 1549 the
final report was issued just about two
years ago some two dozen recommendations
were made to make the state of the
system safer to make this common
accident less likely to happen in future
and let me ask you what you think the
result has been of those two dozen
recommendations made by this independent
agency that is charged with making the
rezident recommendations but cannot
themselves implement them it's it's the
province of our regulatory agency the
FAA to change the rules and the airlines
to adopt them of the two dozen how many
you think have been implemented thus far
how many think that half have been raise
your hands I may think five have been
gosh you guys are a cynical budge how
many think to have been okay and how
many think one has been does anybody
think none has been you're right you're
right thus far none of the
recommendations has been implemented and
so to get back to your question right
now
aviation is ultra safe but if we're
going to keep it at that level and make
it better
which is what our what we should be
doing because our passengers deserve an
expected we've got to do more work than
we're doing right now
unfortunately just a month after our
flight in February 2009 in Buffalo New
York there was a crash that claimed 50
lives the continent conduction coal
canary 3407 49 on the airplane and one
person on the ground who's whose house
the crash hit the families of the
victims of the Colgan air crash have
been ardent and tireless advocates of
safety and they've been very active on
lobbying legislators on the Capitol Hill
they've been lobbying the airline
industry and it's largely through their
efforts some help from me and my first
officer of my flight Jeff Skiles that
we've got through the Congress two bills
they were that passed in fall of 2009 in
the summer of 2010 that have required
greater experience for pilots especially
young pilots with regional airlines from
the unbelievably low minimum level now
of 250 hours to be in turn on pilot on
this laughing it's laughably small to at
least 1,500 hours and also to improve
the rules that prevent pilot fatigue but
you know what the airline industry and
their lobbyists are fighting as hard as
they can
tooth and nail they're spending millions
of dollars to fight this to weaken it to
delay it to kill it I've had them cursed
personally call me liar I've had them
you know fight everywhere they can to
say that this isn't necessary that we
that we really it's okay the way it is
it's good enough and of course it isn't
so we're fighting entrenched interests
to have a big financial stake in the
status quo and and I don't see that's
that's happening anytime soon and
unfortunately in our society like every
other it almost takes a crisis to focus
the public attention and the political
will to get these things done and as we
as we recede in time from these events
and we
get back to business as normal and and
those that were opposing can say well we
haven't killed anybody lately so we're
doing everything okay
and ever and we're saying you can't
define safety only that way you have to
look proactively at the risk and
mitigate them
it's gonna be an ongoing battle yes sir
it seems to me like the NTSB is
unusually competent and effective if
underpowered where is the FAA suffers
from regulatory capture and terrible
inertia and bureaucracy you can be
forgiven forgiven if you want to punt on
this question because it's political but
why do you think that the NTSB has that
spark where I think it's it's twofold
first the NTSB is an independent agency
it's somewhat more insulated from the
political process although not
completely by any means and also just a
practical matter the rulemaking agency
the FAA is the one that's when impose
costs on the operators it's the one
that's going to make the rules that
determine how much it cost them to
operate in accordance with the new
standards how inconvenient it is for
them and of course the industry and
their lobbyists are finding anything
that's that's deemed to be either the
least bit more costly or the least bit
more inconvenient for them and that they
view as a regulatory burden quite
frankly and so I think it's just a
matter of practicality it's the
rulemaking process that where the where
the differences are made and that's
where the costs are going to be felt so
I I think it's not just the FA I think
that many of the federal agencies have
that problem and I I think it's whether
it's in the financial world where we're
seeing these kinds of things happen or
on Capitol Hill the influence of money
is is too great in our society and I'm
not going to put on a political question
even though this is not a really
political book I don't shy away from a
spring answering or dressing important
questions that people care about that
affect our lives and there's the the
influence of money is too great in our
entire political system and it's even
worse now after that wrongheaded Supreme
Court decision in
citizens united that gives corporations
the ability to donate unlimited sums and
super PACs and it disenfranchises the
rest of us because the lobbyists can get
the rules written in their favor and
it's not in the favor of the traveling
public it's not in the favor of the
average American it's in favor of
specific industries or specific
companies notice can you do you know of
any recipe to have more agencies like
the NTSB that could perhaps help to
regulate the financial history and some
the other risk areas I think having
longer terms would help and having
appoints appointees that are more based
on competence and not political
affiliation again I get to Mike I could
get back to my eye my response to when
people have on occasion ask me my
political affiliation and I anticipated
very early on I mean three years ago
plus if that question would eventually
be asked I've been shocked and surprised
that has been asked only twice in
three-and-a-half years but I had a ready
answer and it's not a flippant one it's
it's a real answer when people ask me if
I'm a Republican or our American or a
Democrat I say I'm an American and I
think as an American and that vote as an
American I wish more of us did that yes
man back here in the back
I'm sorry we have someone else first
quick for the mic
and you're loaded for all
super
you talk about your daughter I'm just
curious to share with us how appendage
through your own personal example by
modeling the behavior you want to see in
them they are not going to listen to
what you say as much as what they'll
watch what you do
and from our daughters now in 1917 and
my wife is a wonderful partner a
wonderful mom and I think part of the
reason that they've turned out the way
they are is it's in their DNA and amaya
daughters are adopted so they're not
biologically related to us directly but
you know part of who we are is our DNA
but that's only a part of it but my wife
has done a great job of being there for
them mentoring them we read to them that
from a very early age and cuddle with
them even before they could understand
the words
and it was it was refund to see them
then try to quote read even before they
could through their stuffed animals or
their dolls or the young all the older
one - the younger one mimicking what we
had done with them so I would say just
just act around them the way you want
them to act in every way the words you
choose the way you treat shopkeepers or
people on the you pass on the highway
whatever it is they will notice what you
have done
it's one of the things I say in the book
about my time as a captain and
practicing for 22 years as a captain out
of my 30 years as an airline pilot
meeting a new group of people a new crew
every week and trying to quickly take
this collection of individuals some of
whom may not even know each other and
form a team so if something bad happens
in the first takeoff we can work
together effectively and solve the
problem and and I say in the book that
that few interactions with others went
unnoticed or were completely real a
consequence people noticed those things
they or as I say about my friend Chris
who died of cancer three years ago and I
spoke at his memorial service Chris was
able to live his life in such a way that
his values were apparent he didn't have
to tell you what he believed you could
see in his actions and his
toots why here that would be good I
think yes over here
right
thank you
oh gosh that's a great question
fortunately just about everybody I asked
to interview said yes they were very
anxious to be a part of this progress
process which was wonderful are there
stories that I would like to have
included they didn't have time to well
there was yes absolutely there was one I
touch on briefly one of the people I
really wanted to interview and wasn't
able to make our schedules mesh was now
the Secretary of Veterans Affairs the
former four-star army general chief of
staff of the Army Eric Shinseki he as a
young infantry officer in Vietnam badly
wounded lost part of one foot served
with distinction throughout his entire
career rose to the highest rank in the
army and as as now as Veterans Affairs
Secretary trying to do his very best to
give the best care for our veterans if
he can one thing in particular really
caught my attention about him in terms
of his personal moral courage early in
2003 before the marched invasion of Iraq
he was asked to testify before Congress
about the numbers of ground troops that
would be required to to control the
pacify the country after that the
invasion phase was over he testified
truthfully Kortright Lee about the fact
that several hundred thousand would be
required which was a much larger number
than then Secretary of Defense Donald
Rumsfeld was publicly stating along with
the rest of the administration and he
paid a political professional price for
that ended up retiring and leaving and
not being able to continue and I think
that was just a perfect example of the
kind of moral courage that I'm talking
about that I admire
many of these people I would like to
have told more of his story and Andrian
personally and I wasn't able to to make
our our schedules work
all opportunity
that's a great question it's a it's a
it's a big question I'll try to to
distill it down to its essential
elements what happened to us On January
15 2009 on flight 1549 was extraordinary
it was very rare statistically to have
an airliner hit either so many birds or
such large birds that it basically
disabled it and damaged the engines it
turns out in reparable ii when leading
to an engines out emergency landing in
water just 208 seconds after we hit them
just under three and a half minutes so
that was something was a novel and
unanticipated event for which we had
never specifically trained so it was
very much outside the box and there
there wasn't an exact protocol to follow
in that case and so yes it required a
great deal of it improvisation it
required a great deal of deciding that
many of the things that were taught to
do in less dire situations weren't
really appropriate in that situation
I'll try to go through a few of them up
really quickly the fact that this
happened so soon just 100 second time to
take off at such a low altitude about
2,700 feet with so few options over this
one of the most densely developed
populated areas of the planet Manhattan
meant that we had to act very quickly
very decisively to make tough choices to
get them right immediately based upon
imperfect and ambiguous information the
big advantage that we had was that
unlike some other situations unlike Air
France 447 for example where there was
some ambiguity about exactly what was
what's going on we knew clearly exactly
what had happened exactly why and what
that entailed for us there was no doubt
about what had happened so that part of
the situation was actually very clear
and relative
easy the difficult part was that the
stress levels were so high that they
were marginally debilitating it didn't
leave me with the ability to do the math
on the altitude and distance quite
frankly so what I did was I I relied
upon my my experience of having flown
thousands of flights 20,000 hours and I
was able to look out the window over my
shoulder look at the the nearer runways
and say no and be right very quickly
under those conditions was remarkable
because the NTSB as is their Charter
spent a year and a half
thoroughly investigating every aspect of
this including computer simulations to
determine if theoretically we had enough
energy we had enough altitude speed you
know the 1/2 MV squared part of it the
kinetic energy to make it to a runway
taking into account human reaction time
turns out we did not buy a little bit
and so after after you know never when
you were a kid and they would say don't
get into trouble we'll put it on your
permanent record well if there is such a
thing is probably having an NTSB report
written about you were they were they
were they they literally scrutinized for
a year and a half every thought that we
had every syllable we uh turd every
choice we made every action we took and
to have us be vindicated after that
process I was very happy with one of the
other things that we did that's not
typical is you know in a less dire bird
to see it's thought best and based upon
the data we've we've had the studies
that have been done for the captain not
to fly the airplane but to be the
decision maker to take in the whole
situation be aware of all this of all
the critical parameters to make a choice
announce it and begin directing the
first officer to take certain
actions there wasn't time for that the
workload was so intense the time
pressure so extreme that Jeff Skiles my
first officer night never had time to
even discuss the situation we had to
simply act and so it was best that I fly
rather than time to tried to direct him
because there wasn't time and so I
called for the checklist I began making
a left turn started taking actions by
memory because there wasn't time to
again one of the other protocols we we
deviated from was rather than then wait
until a minute plus later over a third
of the way through the remaining flight
time when we finally got to this part of
the checklist where we first would heart
start taking remedial actions like
turning on you an engine ignition
starting an auxiliary power unit to
provide a backup source of electoral
generation I took them in the first two
seconds by memory so but there were
several ways that we deviated from the
normal course of things just due to the
exigencies and that was critical had I
not done so he couldn't have had as good
an outcome so yeah there were this whole
thing was one series of improvisation
after another but done based upon you
know 42 years applying $20,000 in the
air and having a clear understanding of
the end state I was just going to
achieve and knowing what what and
knowing which options were possible
which ones were not by looking out the
window I'm being right that's what we
did now there was a question up here
that we've been neglecting
I'm sorry one more time
what could you suggest engineers who are
working on safety critical systems a
couple of things to do it I would say
the engineers who are working on safety
critical systems to realize that just as
in medicine just as an aviation just as
in many other critical industries of
what we have now are human technology
systems that must function together
seamlessly and we need to involve the
end users as early as possible in the
system design we need to take advantage
of the limitations and the abilities of
the technology and of the humans and
assign them appropriate roles
accordingly for example in aviation as
in many domains technology is great it
affords us wonderful functionality
wonderful displays of information high
levels of integration of electronic
connectedness but the downside of that
is that technology for the most part can
only do what has been foreseen and
programmed it's humans who can innovate
and by way my favorite definition of
innovation is changing before you're
forced to by a regulation by competition
by circumstance and so what we did that
day was to innovate and and some of the
technology helped us to some extent but
it was basically hand manually flying
making choices you know in terms of our
human capabilities so I would say keep
the human factor in mind that you could
your engineering can be top rated
first-rate and if you don't take into
account sufficiently or appropriately
the how how humans are going to use it
the fact that humans are going to make
mistakes and your systems need to be
tolerant of that and
make them as least likely as possible
then you can still fail and fail
spectacularly if you don't do that yes
sir with that in mind how do you feel
about Airbus's program flight envelope
III
the short answer us I prefer Boeing's
philosophy which is that when you
approach certain limitations it will
warn you it would be this this dick may
shake or it may make a noise but if you
must go beyond that to avoid hitting the
ground to avoid a collision
it's possible to do so people have asked
me if if we would have had a similar
outcome in a Boeing airplane that day my
answer is I think we would have as long
as it was you know the the general
geometric layout it was similar the
airplane shape and size was same where
we would had a similar outcome the the
Airbus I was flying was a fly-by-wire
airplane in which there's no longer a
direct mechanical connection between the
flight controls in the cockpit and the
flight control services in the wings the
tail instead there are flight control
computers that interpret and mediate the
pilots inputs and then send electrical
impulses to actuators that move the
control surfaces the the the flight
envelope protections that the Airbus
fly-by-wire system affords us we didn't
need because we never got to the maximum
zat which it would have essentially
protected us from exceeding certain
limitations and it in one important way
it hindered us and this has not been
well told what loan and we look at the
digital flight data recorder that has
all kinds of streams of data of all the
flight control positions altitude
airspeed acceleration etc and in the
last four seconds of the flight that's
right before we touched down I I was not
yet achieving the maximum lift from the
wings I was commanding more pulling back
the left on the stick and the flight
control computers prevented me from
getting more lift
therefore we hit harder than we
have there was more damage underneath
where water came in sooner one
structural piece of metal was driven up
through the back floor which cut doreen
Welsh's the flight attendants leg and so
that was not the way we were trained it
would work and it turns out there's a
little known software feature known only
then to a few airbus software engineers
and to no pilots no airlines that this
was the case it's called a few going
mode and it was not the way we were
trained to your plane should work
apparently it is the way that joins the
airplane does work but that was not
apparent to us and so in that sense it
hurt actually hurt us no he's asking if
we were indirect law and there were
there are there are three categories of
sophistication that are possible in the
Airbus flight control system the highest
level the normal level is called normal
law in which everything is working and
all these flight integral or protections
are intact it prevents you from going
too fast or too slow anything I was too
high or too low with too much Bank too
much acceleration in terms of G an
alternate law you have some of those
protections not all of them that's a
degraded mode but the flight control
protections are still somewhat active
indirect law
none of the flight control protections
is active it's possible to
aerodynamically stall the wing it won't
protect prevent you from doing that and
it flies more like a more conventional
airplane now we say to normal all the
entire time that caused in the first two
seconds I started to our airplanes
auxiliary power unit and by the time the
left engine rep speed RPMs deep decayed
below the point at which they'd left
generator can quit continuing power or
electrical buses the APU generator was
on line and so we remained in Roma law
all those protections were in attack
we don't hear about
okay all right let's see who else there
must be some others yes sir right here
you had mentioned about increasing
flight time the firemen
yes so what kind of advice
how do you get from to if you want to be
a pilot how do you get from 250 hours to
1500 hours well that's I think you'll do
the same thing that we've always done
and if you don't go through the military
which there are fewer options now and
even if you decide to go that route you
owe the military more years I think up
to 12 now versus the 5 or 6 it used to
be you'll have to do something else but
there are jobs out there and I think in
one way
there probably are a few better
situations it used to be that you would
go to one type of an operation to flies
and maybe be a flight instructor and
small single-engine propeller airplanes
for a while and you would change
companies so you go somewhere else to
fly as copilot in a turboprop doing the
charters and eventually you would fly a
Learjet someplace else now there are a
few more operations where it's more
vertically integrated and you'll have
more options to progress within that
same company but it's it's a difficult
thing to do you're right it's but there
are options spite of what the regional
airlines Association lobbyists say there
are options besides just flying banner
toll along the beach or being a flight
instructor in small single-engine
airplanes but it's always been hard and
it's no easier now but does it really
matter I mean do you would you want to
put your kids on an up regional jet
where the first officer has 250 hours I
wouldn't I mean it doesn't matter how
hard it is it's what's required yes
do you think a less experienced pilot
and ahead of her I think it would have
been much harder I think in every way
whether it had been night whether it did
it still been snowing whether we were a
little bit further from the river and if
any of those things had changed they
would have been much harder and had I
had with me well I'm assuming you're
talking about both pilots had had the
captain been less experienced it might
not have been as hardwired in his or her
brain a way of synthesizing a lifetime
of experience in training to come up
with the way to solve this new problem
you'd never seen before in 208 seconds
had I had a less experienced first
officer I still wouldn't have had time
to direct them so it would have meant I
would have had to do more things myself
which I probably really couldn't have
done there was I was maxed out and I
would have has much help because Jeff
Skiles had also been a captain before on
a 737 before all the cutbacks forced him
back into the right seat to be a first
officer again he also had 20,000 hours
of flying time like I did and so he
intuitively it immediately grasped the
situation as it develop as I did I
didn't have to tell him what was going
on he saw it we knew it he was able to
listen to my conversation with the air
traffic controller on the radio and
infer my intent
he knew intuitively and immediately to
shift his priorities on his own
initiative I didn't have a chance to
tell him laid in this light - stop
trying to regain usable thrust using the
checklist but with what turned out to be
these irreparably damaged engines and
instead by it
calling out airspeed and altitude to me
he helped me judge that final critical
maneuver the height above the river
judging and visually at which I began
raising the nose to start to land if I
waited too long we'd hit too hard
wouldn't have got the nose up enough if
I began to raise the note too soon we'd
get to slow and drop it in and it too
hard so he had to call out the airspeed
altitude to me to help being judge that
critical
so it had either one of us been not as
experienced we we could not have had as
good an outcome and everything we
everything every part of it would have
been harder that's why that's why you
know we we make it look so easy being an
airline pilot because so much goes so
right so much of the time but at any
given moment you have to be able to
handle whatever the cosmos throws at you
even if it's never been thought up
before and you get it right the first
time
that's our job and that's why in spirit
experience matters are we out of time
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